Ondrej copy cat

topic posted Mon, March 10, 2008 - 2:52 PM by  Todd
posted by:
Todd
Philadelphia
  • Re: Ondrej copy cat

    Mon, March 10, 2008 - 9:45 PM
    Hmmm.

    I have met quite a few folks who play in this manner. Most of them have never heard of Ondrej. How is playing in the most common contemporary style being a copycat?

    Anyone who finds Ondrej to be the pinnacle of didj playing should probably get out a bit more.

    Not to disparage his playing, but really. There are loads of folks who play like he does.
    • Re: Ondrej copy cat

      Mon, March 10, 2008 - 10:14 PM
      With an instrument dating back over 60,000 some odd years, I'd say with no ego that we are all copy cats. good lawd.....
  • Re: Ondrej copy cat

    Tue, March 11, 2008 - 8:12 AM
    Todd, he has a similar style to at least one of Ondrej's, doesn't sound as good to me. Haven't listened to his other videos.

    Hey, is that Jeff Lohr, without a pic? Whassamatta, you a vampire? ;-) Must be you, jumpin' right in, stirring the pot... if so, good to "see" you.

    JOL, 60,000 years? Based on what? To the best of my knowledge, there's only evidence going back 2-3,000 years. Am I wrong?

    Chuck, really? All trad players are copycats of the early NEAL players? WAL, others, everybody?!?!
    • Re: Ondrej copy cat

      Tue, March 11, 2008 - 9:49 AM
      2,000-3,000 years? For me reality supposedly started in 1967 but time binding began when I observed that Matchgame '72 turned to Matchgame '73, so there's only been 35 years of recorded history, everything before that or outside my experiance is make believe. For the record, I discovered didjeridu in 1988, so you can drop two zeros off your guestimate there Steve (you old timer!).
      • Re: Ondrej copy cat

        Tue, March 11, 2008 - 12:35 PM
        Is it just me, or is there a certain hypocrisy to a solipsist belonging to an online community? Isn't there a word for that? :>
        • Re: Ondrej copy cat

          Tue, March 11, 2008 - 1:04 PM
          Hiya Steve!

          Yep, this is jeff Lohr. I did not mean to stir the pot tooo much. Put up some pics for ya as well. Not sure about the vampire bit but hey, this is Oregon. Not so into the whole tanning bed thing..

          I also did not mean to diss Ondrej. I was not trying to say that loads of people play just like him, simply that many people play in a virtually identical style. Many doing so before him, at the same time as him, and many with no awareness of him. Hard to copy thart which you have never experienced, yeah?

          When I hear 'copycat' I think blatant plagiarism. I do not think of someone playing in a similar style. To be a true copycat in my silly mind, one would need to be playing an identical riff, or series of chords, or identical melody etc. And then pawning it off on their own.

          In addition I think it is absurd to imagine that Ondrej is the originator of this style of play.

          I agree that there is no credible evidence of the instrument dating back for more than a few thousand years. it is sort of sad how misinformation gets regurgitated like that.

          As to if we are all copycats? Ya'll may be on to something there. I have actually started copying myself in an effort to cheat death. i will let you know how it is working out in 60,000 years or so.
          • Re: Ondrej copy cat

            Wed, March 12, 2008 - 10:10 AM
            I think you're right.
            There are a lot of players today that can go hard and fast.
            What impresses me about Ondrej is his endurance and his consistency.

            I haven't seen many players who can play that style so effortlessly and with such astonishing accuracy for an hour or more, or who take the time to create actual compositions rather than doing mostly improvisational playing.

            I don't think that he is the be-all and end-all of didgeridoo playing - honestly, a little of that style goes a long way for me - but I do think he deserves some recognition for his technical musicianship, which is quite extraordinary.
            • Re: Ondrej copy cat

              Wed, March 12, 2008 - 6:32 PM
              There is one thing about being influnced by someones style and then just totaly copying a sound. There is this guy called trdkurac
              that has a thing against Ondrej. He showed me the clip to show that other people can do his style and even better.
              Jake Duncan can do an Ondrej style but he even told me that he has no intention of copying him.
              But you know Jay, I thought the Tartan Terrors where a Wicked Tinkers copy cat but they do thier own little thing too.
              • Re: Ondrej copy cat

                Thu, March 13, 2008 - 12:50 AM
                All artists stand on the shoulders of those who have come before.

                When the minimalist composers started doing their thing in the 60's, one could easily have assumed that Terry Riley was copying Philip Glass, or that Steve Reich was imitating John Adams.

                In retrospect, it seems that they were the collective founders of a musical movement - each one drawing inspiration from the others, and in turn pushing the others to evolve and to create.

                To my knowledge, none of them set out to create "The Minimalist Movement". But they shared a similar aesthetic, and were tuned into the zeitgeist .

                In the Classical era, many composers sounded much like Beethoven.
                In the Baroque era, most everyone sounded vaguely Bach-ish (though he actually composed near the end of that period).

                All I'm saying is that no creator of music or art exists in a vacuum.
                We each draw inspiration from history and the things going on in our world today.

                As long as you don't claim someone else's work for your own (e.g. plagiarize), it's cool.
                I think that we, as a culture, place far to much emphasis on perceived originality.
    • Re: Ondrej copy cat

      Thu, March 13, 2008 - 8:34 AM
      "Chuck, really? All trad players are copycats of the early NEAL players? WAL, others, everybody?!?!"

      Yup, really.

      If a trad player is performing a trad song just like his father, and his father before him, and his father before him... isn't it all the same? ;)


      Jay said it pretty well, many artist incorporate elements of the art created before their own.
      • Re: Ondrej copy cat

        Thu, March 13, 2008 - 9:11 AM
        Well, yeah, as usual I agree with Jay, pretty much.

        But, I've heard players that consider themselves traditional (that is Aboriginal fellas) from diverse areas besides NEAL, and they sound fairly different, from each other. And I hear quite a variety of sounds and approaches from NEAL players, too.

        So, I think Jay's spot on, but in a figurative not literal sense. My observation would be that there were/are many "first guys" in different locations, beginning in different times, with varied interaction and inter-influences. And each "shoulder-stander" continues in a similar fashion, but with original input and additional interactions and influences. So, I see it kinda like a bunch of inverted pyramids that can intersect at various points, rather than one guy with many generations of said shoulder-standers all perfectly vertically aligned.

        I also think it's obvious that sons do not exactly copy the fathers, and it seems that viewpoint occurs to the fathers, too, from what I hear.
        • Re: Ondrej copy cat

          Thu, March 13, 2008 - 5:09 PM
          Right now I'm studing Tyler Spencers work and I have been doing some of his stuff at open mics and busking. So I do it too. The differance is that I'm not recording it and calling it my own. What I am hearing is Ondrejs "songs" being copyed but changed a little. It would be like if I put on a Kilt(I do wear them) and wrote a song called "Clobber the Dog". It would sort of sound like "Wallop the Cat" but I would change the last stanza here and there just so I would not get sued.
          Traditonal playing and copywrited material are 2 different animals.
          • Re: Ondrej copy cat

            Fri, March 14, 2008 - 9:22 AM
            Hey Todd, I love seeing that you put up Jake Duncans name there. That kid is pretty young (18 or 19) and has only been playing seriously for under two years and is already incredible. He did learn alot of his skills from study with Tyler Spencer and this summer when Ondrej was here Jake spent alot of time with him. He's done his best to copy exactly the works of his heros as a skills base and then his own influences will bring him to develop his own style off of that. Finding a base for your creative work is a good model to follow, because you gotta start somewhere, and if you can start by copying either of those two I mentioned you're a force to be reckoned with. Jake has been around didj for a long time, he was one of the kids that would run around in a pack at In-Didj-In-Us every year sword fighting. The kids seem to create a gathering of their own that has little to nothing to do with what their parents are there for, and I suppose that's a great thing, like a leadership camp for kids without adult direction. But like I said, he never got into didge seriously until about a year and a half ago. He missed the In-DidjIn-Us with the Doonooch Dance Troupe choosing to ge to a rock concert instead, or he may have ended up a master of trad style instead of the beats he's rockin' now. Jake is very proud of his new CD 'Sound Triggers Memory' which is a collection of 10 didge solos. I think he does most of his didj networking through myspace (his tag there is albanydidjeridu) though I can't access it because I'm not a myspacer. I looked him up on youtube and immediately one of my goals was to get him to take those off and replace them with better recordings in better settings, one is shot in his bathroom with overflowing garbage can and a toilet in the foreground ('nuf said). Jake is eager to grow and prosper as a performer and I wanna du whatever I can to help promote him. He's already booked to perform this year at In-Didj-In-Us and since he's a local guy (to me) I'm gonna try to get him to do sound samples of my sticks on my website once I figure out how I wanna add those. Another thing I want to do with Jake and with other aspiring young players is to pass them good sticks at little to no cost so they can feel supported in their efforts. If anyone here is aware of any other young players that are chock full of talent and could use some support let me know, this whole didj scene is something that we grow together, and it's okay for growth to recieve guidance and support.
          • Re: Ondrej copy cat

            Fri, March 14, 2008 - 10:05 AM
            Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, right?
            If you put out a "Clobber the Dog" track, I will personally buy you a drink, next time I see ya! :-)
            That's freakin' hysterical.

            And yes, I agree with the inverted pyramid metaphor.
            Well said.
            • Re: Ondrej copy cat

              Sun, March 16, 2008 - 3:23 PM
              Jake is a great player, but Chad, or those your didges he is playing? You have 3 really nice didges at didgeridoo store I've been cheaking out. I saw on your website that you are creating your didges to Ondrejs specs of the"right" king of didge. The CB51 71' C looks really nice and I soooo tempted to buy it.
              • Re: Ondrej copy cat

                Mon, March 17, 2008 - 5:03 PM
                Jake has a couple of my sticks (D and F) and he also rocks a Tyler Spencer agave (B) and a Matty Merwin cedar (E). He's got a very good ear and I made about about 4 or 5 sticks to get him exactly the characteristics he was after in that D, which is to say that he doesn't just grab anything that comes his way, and I think for him to play sticks from several crafters shows more maturity and professionalism than if he were just choose an allegiance, and I owe alot of my knowledge to both Tyler and Matty so I'm just psyched to be in such good company.
  • Re: Ondrej copy cat

    Thu, April 3, 2008 - 8:15 AM
    Hasn't anyone ever heard of a "COVER SONG?" Heh.

    Hell, I didn't even know who Ondrej was until Burning Man last year when someone said I played like him (style, not ability) so here's another copycat!!! I've been listening to electronic music (mostly drum and bass) far longer than I've been playing didge and my style is very influenced by this. Not sure if that's Ondrej's story or not, but the didge lends itself very well to doing electronic style rhythms and others. This guy also sounds very electronically influenced.

    It may make some more traditional style players cringe, but I'm sure the electric guitar did too.
    • Re: Ondrej copy cat

      Thu, April 3, 2008 - 10:42 AM
      Ondrej and I have spent at least 30 hours listening to music together travelling in cars and yes, he is very deliberately attempting to make electronic dance style music with his solo performances but his influences in the dance scene are actually more towards 70's and early 80's pre-electronica. He's incredibly knowledgeable about just about every genre of music, and fortunately for him riding with me he like's The Melvins. I really like his band Autopilote if I can block out the Japanese girl singing. My wife thinks the singer is cool like Yoko Ono but to each their own. I'd like to hear Autopilote with Al Jorgenson (Ministry) singing. I really hope didge finds it's place in heavy rock.

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